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Cherlilly

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Reply with quote  #1 
Oh this is so hard to read about the Adriamycin benefiting HER2 + and not the HER2- which is what I am.
Makes me think I am going through all of this chemo for nothing

Thanks for the information.  I read all of the studies.

Cheryl

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DX 8-14-07
Invasive Medullary Carcinoma
Triple Negative
Stage 1c
Grade 3- Poorly Differentiated
Lymph Node-Negative
onecent

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Reply with quote  #2 
I just took that!
You mean it didn't work?

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Cherlilly

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Reply with quote  #3 
well, I am triple negative, and it is saying that it is more effective for HER2+........No Surrender "G" will have more to answer on this.  She is SOOO educated on all of this.  I think she will let us know her thoughts.
I am sure it did some good!  It just had to, right
Cheryl

(How did you do on it?)  I have l more treatment to go.  Maybe I should just cancel it!  heheeh!)  Tempting!!!!!!!!

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DX 8-14-07
Invasive Medullary Carcinoma
Triple Negative
Stage 1c
Grade 3- Poorly Differentiated
Lymph Node-Negative
Karen1956

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Reply with quote  #4 
I also had "A" as in TAC.  Scary to think that it may not have done the job it needed to.  But since it was not the only chemo drug, maybe we don't needed to worry (yeah right - not worry)!!!! I see my onc on the 21st.  I wonder if I should ask him about it - and some of the other stuff from San Antonio.  Hugs, karen
nosurrender

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Reply with quote  #5 
When this study came out in the summer I went straight to my onc with it.
He said it was more of a marker for HER2+ women and whether or not they had that topo factor.
He said there is no evidence that substantiates that the millions of women who were treated with adriamycin did not benefit from it.
The way the study was conducted and reported is confusing. They were looking at subtypes of Her2. It isn't accurate to extrapolate from Her2 and topo positivity to conclude that any cancer without topo won't be effected by adriamycin.

Bottom line is that it is too early to tell and they have not studied ONLY Her2 negative women.

There are too many women surviving cancer because of adriamycin to make such a sweeping generality.


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snhb

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Reply with quote  #6 
Just had to add my 2 cents here.  While I think it's very good that they hold these big conferences, and compare their study findings, which are all very interesting, truthfully I find them a bit too cerebral for the average person to fully comprehend, but as with any study, statistics can be manipulated.  Did the studies include all ethnic groups, or are we going to find out later that only caucasian women were studied, or that only women with black hair were studied.  
Did you know that many drugs were only tried out on white males for many years???  So, there could be medicines that are out there that can actually cure or control certain diseases, but because they didn't work on a particular disease at the time they were being studied ( again I must add they were only given to white males), they were dismissed.
  Sorry to sound so skeptical, but I think it stinks that now people who are taking or have taken adriamycin have to feel that it might not be helping them.  When you receive a breast cancer diagnosis and you are told by a competent oncologist that this is the course of treatment that they feel gives you the best shot to be able to survive, you do what you have to and hope for the best.  So for those ladies who are undergoing the chemo and did so on the advice of their doctor's I say, don't feel you made a mistake, you did the best you could based on the information you had. 
Truthfully, I get very frustrated with a lot of stats that get thrown around with regard to BC.  The acs has the adacity to say how there are less cases of BC being reported, and in the same breath say how LESS woman are getting mammograms, but they don't say that the fact that less women are getting mammograms could be the reason less cases are being reported. 
I HATE STATISTICS!!!  I'm serious, even though I am an intelligent, well educated woman and I read the studies and statistics, I REFUSE to concentrate on them.  I only concentrated on the fact that I AM A PERSON, not a STATISTIC, and I WILL SURVIVE.  Same thing with side effects from meds, if I experience a side effect from a particular medicine, then that is how my body responded, and I don't care if only 2 people in their study group said that Femara caused slight stomach upset.  When my stomach felt like I had a pulled feeling and a gritty feeling in it, kind of like I had sand in there that was developing into a pearl (which to me was more than a slight stomach upset), I told my oncologist and he listened to me and changed my medicine. 
Sorry to go on for so long, but I just had to get this out because while I think it's good to hold these symposium's, I sometimes think it's all a load of crap, because next year's symposium will come out with statistics that showed that this year's findings were wrong.  My motto is do the best you can, stay as positive as you can, use common sense and nobody knows you're body the way you do, so listen to yourself. 
Indigoblue

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Reply with quote  #7 
I think it's all quite frightening, considering all the damage Adriamycin does in the process of killing of the supposed "escape" cancer cells.  I would rather have my old self back, knowing now it was all for naught.  This is unreal, that the drug is given when there is no assurance or proof that it really works. 

Sorry, but I find this new information to be very upsetting.  My brain is so out of it now, I can't even remember how or what to ask doctors regarding all this medical information, while they play their games.  Who am I, anyway, Rudolf the Red nosed Rubiginious Reindeer?  Wassail, it would be nice to have some now; help the sore throat and this headache. 

I think I am experiencing what is called "justifiable depression"...

Indi
nosurrender

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Reply with quote  #8 
That's what I thought until I read THIS STUDY:

TEN YEAR FOLLOW UP STUDY SHOW THAT ADRIAMYCIN WORKS

[3077] Annual hazard rates of recurrence for early breast cancer. What has changed in the last 10 years? Results from the NORA study.

Cazzaniga ME, Mustacchi G, Pronzato P, De Matteis A, Di Costanzo F, Nardi M, Barberis G, D'Aprile M, Rulli E, Floriani I. Az Osp Treviglio-Caravaggio, Treviglio, Bergamo, Italy

BACKGROUND: 10 years ago, Saphner et Al (J Clin Oncol 14: 2738-2746, 1996) analyzed 3585 breast cancer (BC) patients (pts) in terms of annual hazard rates (HRs) of recurrence; 2661 (74.2%) were N+ve, 429 (11.9%) high-risk N-ve, 1965 (54.8%) were treated with CMF-based chemotherapy (CHT), 650 (18.1%) with anthracycline-based CHT, with or without tamoxifen (T) and 87 (2.4%) with T alone. The remaining pts were followed up. For the entire group, highest HRs of recurrence occurred during first and second year (13.30.7).
PURPOSE: to analyze in a cohort of early BC pts prospectively followed up for a median interval of 3.4 years whether the widespread of adjuvant therapy and the use of more active regimens, mainly 3-drug anthracycline-based, have induced modifications in the magnitude of recurrence peaks or in the appearance time.
METHODS: NORA is a cohort study aimed at investigating treatment modalities and clinical outcome in 3515 early BC pts radically resected in 71 oncological Italian centers. 56.5% of the pts were N-ve and 17.1% had >4 positive axillary nodes. Results concerning treatment details have been already published (Cazzaniga ME et Al, Ann Oncol 17: 1386-1392, 2006). Adjuvant medical treatment was delivered in 97.8% of the cases. Briefly, 1234 (35.1%) were treated with anthracycline-based CHT and 82 (2.3%) with taxanes, with or without T or aromatase inhibitors (AIs). CMF was delivered in 963 pts (27.3%). 3433 pts (97.7%), for whom full data concerning relapse are available, were analyzed in terms of annual HRs of recurrence, defined as the fraction of pts who recur during a 1-year interval.
RESULTS: for the entire group, the peak hazard of recurrence occurred in the interval from 3rd to 4th year (HR=3.4 0.5). The peak hazard of recurrence in all pts traditionally considered at high risk (N>10; T4) remained in the interval from 1st to 2nd year (18.2 3.6, 11.5 3.8, respectively), even if in some cases 2-3 fold reduced in comparison a decade ago. Details are listed in Table 1.
CONCLUSION: our results suggest that the widespread of adjuvant systemic therapy and the use of more active drugs, mainly anthracyclines, have delayed and reduced the peak hazard of recurrence in some groups of early BC pts. High risk pts showed a significant reduction of recurrence number but not a delay in the time of appearance.

HRs of recurrence by yearly interval

 

Saphner (JCO 1996)

 

 

 

 

HRsSE

Interval (years)

HRsSE

Interval (years)

Entire Group

13.30.7

1-2

3.40.5

3-4

N4

23.61.5

1-2

6.81.8 (N4-10)/18.23.6 (N>10)

2-3/ 1-2

ER-ve

18.51.4

1-2

6.41.3

2-3

ER+ve

11.00.8

2-3

3.10.5

3-4

T>3 cm

19.71.4

1-2

5.61.1 (T2)/14.38.2(T3)/11.53.8(T4)

3-4/4-5/1-2




IT WORKS!!

I will take a ten year study over a dinky her2 topo study ANYDAY!!




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Indigoblue

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Reply with quote  #9 
  Thanks Gina,

You always help to make everything clear, bright, and "all better".
This helps to wake me up and remember there are many proven studies that must assure physicians the Adriamycin works.  I think I've been in such a goofy fog lately; emotions, not feeling well, headaches. 

You are so special, thank you.  Hope you're enjoying the holiday season.
You deserve a great vacation!

love you,

Indi

I'm seeing a muscle/pain specialist tomorrow...not looking forward to it.
Maybe he will know something about this latest news on the Adriamycin.  He was recommended by my Oncologist, to help sort out these pain issues I'm having with side effects.  Probably will be another, yet, humiliating experience.  Oh well, I'll try anything.  Will let you know what happens.
nosurrender

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Reply with quote  #10 
Oh I hope he can help you!
maybe! just maybe!
I think you are due a break dear friend!


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Indigoblue

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Queen Blue Sky & Golden Light
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Reply with quote  #11 
Flubbered the appointment, sick, and they did not receive the information and doctor reports, etc...that's good, too ill to drive anywhere, let alone, trying to explain all this bull garbolini stuff.  Sore throat, antibiottics haven't kicked in, yet.  Ouch.  Coughing is difficult...that's a first.  Hurts behind the boobzone.  Anyway, it will give me time to draw up a precise list of "what am I doing here, anyway?" questions. 

I said I thought it might be a strep throat...they said, thank you, don't come.
I said, well, I probably caught it from a doorknob...

We laughed. har har har...

snort, snifffff, eh, hem...

Indi

Gina, are you feeling any better?  How is the L and the finger?  Worried about you.  Take care of you, sweet one, rest!
Indigoblue

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Queen Blue Sky & Golden Light
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Reply with quote  #12 
Idon't know the author or this poem, Caldril, Colton?  I remember the line and the drawings from an old (1920-?)
 
Friend
 
I could sail the waters of all the world,
bitter, wild, and blue
And never I'd find a friend to love
Like the friend I've found in you.
 
I could travel the roads of all the world
And knock on the doors forever,
but never I'd friend to love like you,
Never, never, never!
 
author  unknowm,(if you it, please inform asap!
 
Thanks, I love the poem and the litho print it was printed on...a sailor, a sailboat, and the poem.
 
I hope you like it, too.
 
)))warm hugs)))
Indi
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